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 Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)

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Raistlin The Wizard
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PostSubject: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sat Feb 23 2008, 16:33

In 2006 there was redefinition of what should be considered a planet or not. According to this Pluto is now classified as a dwarf planet along with Ceres and Eris.

Quote :
The final definition, as passed on 24 August 2006 is:

“ The IAU...resolves that planets and other bodies, except satellites, in our Solar System be defined into three distinct categories in the following way:
(1) A planet is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape, and (c) has cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit.

(2) A "dwarf planet" is a celestial body that (a) is in orbit around the Sun, (b) has sufficient mass for its self-gravity to overcome rigid body forces so that it assumes a hydrostatic equilibrium (nearly round) shape [2], (c) has not cleared the neighbourhood around its orbit, and (d) is not a satellite.

(3) All other objects, except satellites, orbiting the Sun shall be referred to collectively as "Small Solar System Bodies".

Footnotes:

[1] The eight planets are: Mercury, Venus, Earth, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, and Neptune.
[2] An IAU process will be established to assign borderline objects into either dwarf planet and other categories.
[3] These currently include most of the Solar System asteroids, most Trans-Neptunian Objects (TNOs), comets, and other small bodies.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The IAU further resolves:

Pluto is a "dwarf planet" by the above definition and is recognized as the prototype of a new category of Trans-Neptunian Objects.

Source:Wiki

Now my question for you is:

"Is Pluto a planet or not?"

Should be Pluto officially re-instated as a principal planet? Or this the new definiton accurate? What are your feelings towards it? Most of us have lived believing there were 9 planets. Can we accept the fact of only 8 planets now?

Everyone will be able to win up to 80 points in this discussion. However you'll be albe to win extra 20 points if you are:

- The Most Creative (if you have a quite an original opinion and way of express it)
- The Most 'Researcher' (if you back up your opinion with quotes and sources)

- The Most Passionate (if you strongly stand by your beliefs)


The House With most Students participating will get 20 points.

Let the discussion begin.

Raistlin The Wizard
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sat Feb 23 2008, 16:54

I think that under the new definition Pluto should not be considered a planet. It should of, when it was almost done forming, become gravitationally dominant. Which means that it should be the largest body excluding it's satelittes. Pluto shares it's "neighborhood" with the Kuiper Belt, therefore not fulfilling the qualifications for a planet.

Sources: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleared_the_neighbourhood
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_planet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planet
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planetary_nomenclature#Pluto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pluto#Other_factors_governing_Pluto.27s_orbit
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sat Feb 23 2008, 17:47

Technically I understand that Pluto is not a planet, but I am not accepting it! Why, after decades, should Pluto have been stripped of its status? What ever happened to My Very Eager Mother Just Served Us Nine Pizzas? Are we supposed to just throw away the last word of the planet acronym?

To qoute a young school age child:

Quote :
"Why do they have to go mess stuff up?" 11-year-old Angelique Price asked.

Why indeed?

Is having Pluto re-classified as a planet going to do anyone any harm? Taking it away has obviously traumatized me and 11 year old Angelique. Sure, some snotty scientists might get their noses knocked out of joint, but they should know better than to try to re-write the history of our solar system.

This reminds me of the whole egg debate. One minute eggs are the healthiest food to eat, the next they are deadly, then healthy for you again, now they are only healthy for you if you eat the egg whites. Stop the madness! I want to eat my whites and my yolk, and I want Pluto back up to planet status.

And I am not the only one! Check out the Pluto Petition website. I urge you to join the fight today. Why should we accept today that Pluto isn't a planet when in a few weeks or months new science will just prove that it is, or that it's responsible for Global Warming?

Don't buy in to it! The scientists are just trying to stir up the news so they can get more funding to clone themselves and take over the world from us Pluto loving common folk. Stand up for Pluto before they take away another planet! Before they re-classify Planet Earth as a black hole. Pluto is a planet if we say it is, afterall, aren't we the ones who truly decide our own reality?

Sources:
http://plutopetition.com/
http://mreugenides.blogspot.com/2006/08/battle-of-planets.html

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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sat Feb 23 2008, 18:33

Pluto as a planet or not never bothered anyone but am I the only one that still says their's nine planets and how on earth are we supposed to remember the planets the rhyme goes:

* My (Mercury)
* Very (Venus)
* Excited (Earth)
* Mother (Mars)
* Just (Jupiter)
* Served (Saturn)
* Us (Uranus)
* Nine (Neptune)
* Pizzas (Pluto)

So whats the new rhyme going to be? Stripping it of its title as a planet has caused more harm than it has benefit. What is the point. Pluto will always be a planet and just imagine how many people are going to get the question wrong in their SATS How many planets are there? And the amount of people that will say 9 will be amazing.

Yes according to the rules Pluto is not a planet but changing it has just confused so many people and the stupid scientist know where they can stick their planets. Pffft.

In the eyes of most people in the world Pluto is a planet how are we supposed to learn the ryhme and remember just to forget about the pizzas bit. *Rolls eyes*

Sources: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/adam.milner/memory_aids/memory_aids.htm#planets
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sat Feb 23 2008, 21:19

PLUTO: Planet or Not?





This question has come up so many times. I've tried to avoid the "is Pluto a planet?" issue as far as possible because I think it is essentially bogus and scientifically it is a non-issue


Personally, I grew up with the universe's smallest and coldest planet and the age old rhyme, 'MY Very Eager Mother Just Served Us Nine Pickles' and I really don't want to see my son or daughter reciting, 'My Very Eager Mother Just Served Us Noodles.' It doesn't even have a nice ring to it!

What about the scifi tv shows and movies?
older ones have pluto mentioned as a 'planet' you can't go back an change it can you?
what about shows like Sailor Moon who has 'Sailor Pluto'
what about Mickey Mouse who has a dog named Pluto. (Well, that's not relevant, but it's going along with my discussion.) and all those other mentionable shows?


I believe they shouldjust leave it, there really isn't any need to strip it from the charts. I still see Pluto as a planet despite what astronomers may say. It was my favorite out of all of them.How could you change history just like that?Do you know how many sceince books would have to be reprinted and how many schools have to readjust their learning cirriculums to better suit the lesson now that Pluto is taken out of the loop? It's a hassel and it's costing money and our economy is already low.




Quote :

What Is a Planet Today?

According to the new definition, a full-fledged planet is an object that orbits the sun and is large enough to have become round due to the force of its own gravity. In addition, a planet has to dominate the neighborhood around its orbit.

Pluto has been demoted because it does not dominate its neighborhood. Charon, its large "moon," is only about half the size of Pluto, while all the true planets are far larger than their moons.


There is no good answer to "what defines a planet?" and yet they have been asked to make such a definition. Their big mistake was to agree to do so.




Above shows a picture of the patterns of each planet. As you can see they labeled pluto a Dwarf planet.

Quote :
Pluto will now be dubbed a dwarf planet.
"We know of 44" dwarf planets so far, Brown said. "We will find hundreds. It's a very huge category."

Now, a dwarf planet is known as "a planet that looks like a planet, but is not a planet."

Really now. What is the difference if it doesn't look like a planet. Why the sudden investigation?
If astronomers were dumb enough to dubb it a planet in the first place then why are they going back
to classify it. It's really not important to take it off the solar system.

Everyone knows that Pluto had a slightly more untidy pattern to go around ALL the planets including the sun. My question is that if astronomers knew this about the planet then why did they make it an official planet in the first place? Those little things make me mad because now that everything is all high tech they are allwoed to make better decisions. Technology improves everything, but you shouldn't rely on it.

I understand that there are such things called mistakes, but this RIDICULUOS! I bet if you can round up at least half the world, that they would untie against the astronomers because every single one of them has grown up with Pluto as a planet.

People still proclaim as quoted in When I was your age, Pluto was a Planet(the best thing to tell your grandkids)

Quote :
ra7n7d63
"Things were better when Pluto was a planet, weren't they? I want Pluto Back!"

Quote :
Helly
"Pluto is still a planet to me"

Quote :
Even the planet Pluto says, “I will only truly cease to be a planet when none here are loyal to me.” hehe!

Quote :
But gbman says, "My question is how long have they been discussing Plutos fate?? Surely it must have occurred to someone a while ago that Pluto didn’t fit the criteria. Now, do I hear correctly, is Pluto facing even more hardship. . No longer a dwarf planet?"

I really hope not. If that debate opens up then there will be some major discussio there.


I LOVE Pluto. It was the mystery in itself is what drew me to it. No one has set foot on it
so there is not much known about it. Pluto is still a planet and It's number one in my book and
I don't care what anyone says.







http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2006/08/060824-pluto-planet.html
http://media.maps101.com/SUB/K_3/k3solarsystem.gif
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_planet
http://bestuff.com/stuff/when-i-was-your-age-pluto-was-a-planet
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sun Feb 24 2008, 02:59

I believe that Pluto should still continue to be a planet. I mean no one was being hurt by the fact that it was a planet why change it. I dont even see why they changed it. There are so many other things that people should be worrying about and it shouldnt be weather or not PLuto is a planet. For instance there is cancer. Why dont we work on finding a cure. Why bother finding evidence as to werather or not Pluto is a planet when we should be finding a way to get rid of cancer.

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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sun Feb 24 2008, 03:12

I don't think they should have changed its status. Now everyone has learned that Pluto is the nineth planet and then they change it, they are going to have to make new science text book and everything. I agree with Stephy, they should be doing more important things then trying to find if pluto is a planet or not.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sun Feb 24 2008, 04:07

*picks jaw up off floor after reading Scrilla's post*


How about this argument:

Pluto is a planet because I say its a planet!

Not sold?

How about this: My name is Rigby, and I'm a scientist, and in order to fund my research in ingrown toenails I have decided to re-classify Pluto as a planet because I looked at the calender and realized it was a Sunday, which of course proves Pluto is a planet.

Ahhh, I bet now you're convinced.

How about scientists figure out a way to colonize Pluto, instead of arguing size? Hey, why you're at it, where's my flying car, fancy shmancy scientist?

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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sun Feb 24 2008, 06:16

Funny thing...
I forgot this was a discussion as it proves in my rather long previous post. lol. silly me


stephy wrote:
I believe that Pluto should still continue to be a planet. I mean no one was being hurt by the fact that it was a planet why change it. I dont even see why they changed it. There are so many other things that people should be worrying about and it shouldnt be weather or not PLuto is a planet. For instance there is cancer. Why dont we work on finding a cure. Why bother finding evidence as to werather or not Pluto is a planet when we should be finding a way to get rid of cancer.

I totally agree with that statement, Stephy.

Scientists could be pouring their concentration on much better things thay will benefit US, you know, the ppl who pay TAXES! Not only cancer either, but other diseases like diabetes, high blood pressure, AIDS/HIV etc. People are dying and suffering...

Then again, I guess it will always be evident to take the easy way out. Pluto was an easy target and because it is, it's easy to change and make diagnostic. Apparently, it's not ONLY a 'dwarf planet, but also as asteroid number.


Quote :
Pluto has been given a new name to reflect its new status as a dwarf planet.

On Sept. 7, the former 9th planet was assigned the asteroid number 134340 by the Minor Planet Center, the official organization responsible for collecting data about asteroids and comets in our solar system.
SOURCE: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/14789691/



Quote :
study showed that Pluto is puny, barely a quarter the size of our own Moon. So Pluto was only a planet because it was in the right place at the right time. Demoting this tiny lump of rock was a good decision.
source http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/595


Now, the big one is the moon and the small one on the left hand side is pluto. this is shown thru a hubble space telescope.

This is just a huge hint at the scientist who mislead pluto for a planet in the first place! Before it was praised and celebrate and now because it's smaller than out moon, its a Rock! I really don't buy any of it. It's called research for a reason, it's part of science and those scientists did not do their homework at all. This is just on big correction to cover up their wrong.

No! Just leave it like it is! Why change? It just brings major controversy, which it has.

Quote :
I encourage all Pluto-lovers to have a look at Pluto for themselves. Even through the largest telescope, it is barely indistinguishable from the stars around it. Compare this to the spectacular sight of Jupiter's moons and cloud bands, or the majesty of Saturn's rings.
Source: http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/node/595


Many people feel very passionate about Pluto's status as a planet, and will be disappointed or disbelieving that astronomers have voted to change this. As I can see in this thread. I would love to see someone oppose it to heat up a real debate.

But as a passionate pluto lover, I have seen pluto and if it's bigger than ME and in outer space, it's a freakin' planet!
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sun Feb 24 2008, 06:44

I think it should still be a planet. We have some dumb peolpe in our world today. If its not a planet, then why was it on our maps of the solar systems for so may years. I have always done projects on Pluto and then I couldnt no longer. Even my sister said that for her 6th grade science class( we hade the same teacher) that she had to put more then 7 in a group for the project instead or 4 like always. I think it should because what hamr is it doing to our solor system. I mean, the saying was always what kept me thinking of each planet. Now that its gone, how are the children of our future going to remeber something else when no saying has been done It took me years to rememeber that and I know some of you might say'God she has gone off the deep end' but I havent. I have always been slow in science and I know some other children are to.So it always took me time to remeber each planet. Then I get into 8th grade and the planet is gone and we had a test on it and I'm freaking out about it. Some kids who have grown up knowing that have had the smae experice as me with the planets and not remebering them. This reminds me of the tap water and the milk. The had said tap water had the same particials has tissue paper and tampons(whchc is so not true) and mik as ee threw chemcials befoer we get it in a carton. Seeing as science is my worst subject, I porblem will fell the planet test. I had always started with Pluto and worked it back to the front, now that i cant do that, I will mess up alot.My History teacher agrees with it to. Science was one of her slow subjects. So i think it should still be back on there and you can all go and say 'This girl has gone off the deep end.'

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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sun Feb 24 2008, 21:18

I agree with you Lesley. They shouldn't have changed it should have stayed a planet. Thoses scienctist had nothing better to do than figure out if a planet was a planet or not. They should have been doing something else besides that, now everyone will be messed up they have always known pluto to be a planet and then that changes its just not right to change its status.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Mon Feb 25 2008, 18:26

Many people grew up thinking Pluto was a proper planet, but what is a proper planet?
People agree and disagree in this subject alot, it's a very controversal argument between scientists in our time.
Basically Pluto in my mind is a planet, because of the rhymes you learn in primary school and the solar system maps, i mean why should we stop beliving that Pluto is a planet because some guy in a lab says it not?
Although no-body yet has got past the moon i have high hopes for the future planets in our system, even though most are unacessible!
Anyway back to Pluto, I will always say that Pluto is a planet, it was whenever I was a t primary school and it will be whenever my kidz are in primary school.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Fri Feb 29 2008, 01:41

Well, I was completely thrown off when this was announced, beause it was at the time I was doing a Science project on a planet-Pluto, of course. I was nearly in tears for a bit, thinking that my project would be deemed invalid because Pluto wasn't a planet anymore. I don't think a child should have to go through this again.

Which is why I think that it should remain as it should be. If we spent time debating its status and change it in a generation, what happens to our children, who grow up thinking that Pluto is not a full planet? While Im not saying that all the fuss over the proper classification isn't something that will leave a marked impact on our childhood, we should let well-enough alone and just accept it.

As for everyone saying "they just should have left it and done something else", I would like to remind you that this is their job. They don't have something else to do, they're DOING what they do. You can't critisize them from wanting to get as precise as possible on their work, can you? Do you want to be less precise on your homework because it would have upset people? I should think not. They're astromers, they study astronomy-that is, the study our universe. And they discovered something new, so they're doing their jobs. Don't jeer at them for that.

Science changes, so all the things associated with it changes as well. Remember when people thought the world was flat? All the models of the Earth had to be changed to institute globes. Did people grumble? Most certainly! But they adapted around it, because it was right. Every time there is a new discovery, everyone has to change to adapt to it. This ultimately helps us as a people. The fact that Pluto was once a planet will not be completely forgotten, because students will still learn about the changes that have occurred in Science over the years, so there's no need to really worry about that, is there?

Finally, what we have to understand is that we have to accept change and new discoveries. While they do upset the balance of what we believed is true, it merely helps us learn more. Its not the astronomers' fault for this, they're doing their jobs, earning their living. They can't discover a cure for cancer because that's not what they specialize in. We should probably just all try and adapt to this change, because you never know what could come from it.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Tue Mar 11 2008, 01:52

Pluto never made much sense as a planet with its tininess and moons that aren't that much smaller. But I don't like how they just decided to change its classification. Now all this money has to be spent changing text books (which mine still haven't been changed by the way), and a bunch of little kids will get all confused.

Anyway it isn't a planet under the new definition and it really does make sense as not being considered a planet. I accept it, even though it can be confusing at times (I still almost say their are 9 planets).

Oh and I think its sad Venetia Phair can no longer say she named a Planet, but oh well.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sat Mar 29 2008, 22:12

I think it should still be a planet. I mean, like Cat said, it will only confuse people more for a long time, and it wastes money to change textbooks and such. Pluto has been around since 1930 or so, so is it just now that we are making the standards planets must meet to be considered a planet? Its really not worth all the trouble it will cause.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sun Mar 30 2008, 05:18

Just because they are scientists doesn't give them the right to suddenly change everything everyone has grown up learning! it already costs enough money for our science books, now you expect the schools to completly re-write them? Ha! What harm has Pluto ever done? To me, Pluto is and will always be a planet, because I don't care what a bunch of stupid scientists say. When my teacher asks me how many planets there are, I am going to say 9, because there are 9 planets. if they say I am wrong, then they don't care enough about anything and they don't deserve to be my teacher! Pluto has been a planet for decades, nobody is going to suddenly agree to make it a 'dwarf-planet' because Pluto has been there for too long.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Sun Mar 30 2008, 20:03

I know! I am 13 and I have learned that there are 9 planets my entire life and now they are just gunna suddenly change it so now it is hard for me to remember that pluto isnt a planet! Now they think it is a moon to another planet, well if it is then where is the other planet?! If there was another one they would have found it by pluto and not just floating around someplace else.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Fri Apr 25 2008, 21:00

I like the idea of pluto being a planet, but if the scientific facts say it isnt one then it just isnt. It is not the fault of the scientists that pluto isnt a planet. And as for having to remember, the actual reason they demote pluto from planet to dwarf planet is because they found several other clumps of rocks that were similar sizes to pluto (who was by far the smallest planet). The only reason pluto was originally given planet status was because of its size. Sure, it had other qualities too but without the size... Now they found these clumps, it would only be fair to call them planets aswell, even though they arent. The choice was add about 10 more planets that dont really meet the guidelines or disqualify one. I know what I'd rather.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Mon Apr 28 2008, 19:01

Now my question for you is:

"Is Pluto a planet or not?"

Should be Pluto officially re-instated as a principal planet? Or this the new definiton accurate? What are your feelings towards it? Most of us have lived believing there were 9 planets. Can we accept the fact of only 8 planets now?

Everyone will be able to win up to 80 points in this discussion. However you'll be albe to win extra 20 points if you are:

- The Most Creative (if you have a quite an original opinion and way of express it)
- The Most 'Researcher' (if you back up your opinion with quotes and sources)

- The Most Passionate (if you strongly stand by your beliefs)

The House With most Students participating will get 20 points.

I think, actually I know, that NASA and other space exploration units across this world have better subjects to discuss, like how to get rid of all the space trash. I personally think that Pluto is a planet as it has its own orbit cycle. But the fact they think that the new planet, which is even smaller than Pluto and they are not disussing taking its status as a planet away. How does that work?
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Mon Jun 16 2008, 19:52

I've heard alot about this whole 'Pluto Debate', and I've been trying out thoughts and opinions. However, the idea that seems more sensible, or scientific, is the fact that pluto is no longer a planet. There are three rules designed by IAU:
Quote :

•It needs to be in orbit around the sun.
•It needs to have enough gravity to pull itself into a spherical shape.
•It needs to be the largest in it's region.
This last bullet point is the problem. Pluto is part of what is called the Kuiper Belt, sharing space with other so-called 'Dwarf Planets'. One in particular, called Eris has 25% more mass than Pluto. Therefore, Pluto is breaking the last rule as a planet, it is demoted to being a dwarf planet. For now. But If one of these other clusters of rock should crash into Pluto, then Pluto's mass would grow, therefore becoming the biggest in it's region, becoming a planet once more.

Many people have complained that Pluto should stay a planet, even if a bunch of scientists say it shoudn't.
Well, that's the scientist's job. They have to discuss these things, because they're paid to do it. They've studied science all their adult life, and I think that they've got a damn sight more authority over this subject than someone who's just afraid of change. Besides, we can't live in denial and be wrong just because it might cost money to re-write school-books. Like during the Industrial Revolution, and during Margret Thatcher's time in office, there's always an awkward age to adjust, but it has to be endured.
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PostSubject: Re: Discussion #4 Is Pluto a Planet? (Closing 30th June)   Mon Aug 18 2008, 18:16

Well done everyone!

Gryffindor

KatieBellaTrix - 10
magicguy93 - 10
Amane Misa - 10

Hufflepuff

pickles - 10
Just_Ginny - 20+20


Ravenclaw

Rigby Dumbledore - 35+20
polly - 15
Scrilla - 60+20
stephy - 10
jamirox11 - 10
Alice Cullen - 10
Blue Rabbit Babe - 10

Plus 20 points for most students taking part.

Slytherin

violetriddle - 15
drkangelcat - 10
kathrineee_anne - 10
x_cookie-monster_x - 10

_________________
Something Wicca This Way Comes!

Everyone stare at the awesomeness amber gave me:

HeadMaster

Other titles:
Slytherin Second Head of House
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Dark Studies (temporary) Professor
Healer Studies (temporary) Professor
Divination (temporary Professor)

Student rank: 1st Year (#43)

Skills
Wand: exam not yet taken.
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